Post by scoutsout on Nov 24, 2008 8:16:35 GMT -5
Well, it would appear that the Sturm Kompanie is the new Limberger in the German arsenal and that it's here to stay. We've seen this type of list before in that the Festungskompanie could do part of what this thing can and of course we've seen the German tank lists masquerading as infantry before as well. What we haven't seen is the amount of infantry AT coupled with armor coupled with......trenches?
Yes trenches. This list would not be much to mention without the amazingly underpriced and overlooked trench. Did I mention that these lists ALWAYS defend? With trenches...It's like watching "All's Quiet on the Western Front" WWII style.
I saw two of these lists played yesterday at HTUSA and was surprised and frustrated at what they can bring. The first list was half of a tiger company fused to an infantry mob backed by artillery. Jubelt can tell you more specifically, but it looked like a bad day at black rock for any less than heavy allied armor force. If you're running infantry against it, good luck getting close to it. Jubelt's tank boys sweated blood and still didn't get close to beating it.
The other was Warren's permutation. I narrowly defeated it in breakthrough. He's got three platoons of Schreck packing infantry, 105's , a three tank stug platoon, and six Pak-40's in two platoons, and a four tube mortar section. Oh..and 88 inches of trenches.
What makes these lists so nasty is that they can pack both infantry and armor into a list that gives infantry the survivability to move around the battlefield. The trenches let the German player move double time while still being concealed, gone to ground, and in bulletproof cover. A good player will intermix platoons so that assaulting one of these lines is murderous. The trenches also act as a bog check for halftracks and are impassable to wheeled.
I want to throw out some ideas for taking them on and see if you guys have anything to add.
1) Smoke is your friend. Smoke a section of trench so that it minimizes the defensive fire when you have to assault it. And you will have to assault it eventually, otherwise he'll simply pour fire on your exposed troops till they break and run. The down side is that concealed, gone to ground Germans mean you only range in on a six. Not great odds. I got off one successful smoke mission all day.
2) Assaulting the monster. What you want to try to do is to limit the defensive fire (see #1 above) and hit a very NARROW part of the line. Of course this gets attritional very very fast as he'll feed bodies in from two platoons against your one. When it's done, they'll all run back to the trench and you're back to square one....less the platoon you just sent into the trench to die.
3) Stand off and shoot. If you can find the terrain that will allow you to hide from his long range AT fire, you can try to wrinkle them out of their trenches with high firepower guns in direct fire. Nine big AT 11 or 12 guns makes this difficult as does the 105mm fire raining down on top of you. See #1 for ways to limit their field of vision. Oh...and if you get close enough...he'll drag out the Panzerschreks and they'll make your life really miserable.
4) Bring your own artillery. It's a great idea but...anyone ever hear of a little dispute called World War I? Yeah. It takes time...it takes forward observers. It takes luck (see #1 above). And of course the whole time you're shooting at him, he's shooting at you. Plus, in some of the missions you're gonna be on the clock and trying to get to the objectives before time runs out is dicey.
#4 DOES look like the best option though. With staff teams able to call a repeat, big guns can leverage a section of line and the German either has to keep feeding troops in and hope they survive or back off and let you punch through a section of trench since there won't be any bodies there to stop you. Of course, the counterattack is going to be brutal so make sure you set up your defensive fire lanes well.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. I do know these lists are here to stay and represent one of the best bang for the buck German army types out there right now.
David
Yes trenches. This list would not be much to mention without the amazingly underpriced and overlooked trench. Did I mention that these lists ALWAYS defend? With trenches...It's like watching "All's Quiet on the Western Front" WWII style.
I saw two of these lists played yesterday at HTUSA and was surprised and frustrated at what they can bring. The first list was half of a tiger company fused to an infantry mob backed by artillery. Jubelt can tell you more specifically, but it looked like a bad day at black rock for any less than heavy allied armor force. If you're running infantry against it, good luck getting close to it. Jubelt's tank boys sweated blood and still didn't get close to beating it.
The other was Warren's permutation. I narrowly defeated it in breakthrough. He's got three platoons of Schreck packing infantry, 105's , a three tank stug platoon, and six Pak-40's in two platoons, and a four tube mortar section. Oh..and 88 inches of trenches.
What makes these lists so nasty is that they can pack both infantry and armor into a list that gives infantry the survivability to move around the battlefield. The trenches let the German player move double time while still being concealed, gone to ground, and in bulletproof cover. A good player will intermix platoons so that assaulting one of these lines is murderous. The trenches also act as a bog check for halftracks and are impassable to wheeled.
I want to throw out some ideas for taking them on and see if you guys have anything to add.
1) Smoke is your friend. Smoke a section of trench so that it minimizes the defensive fire when you have to assault it. And you will have to assault it eventually, otherwise he'll simply pour fire on your exposed troops till they break and run. The down side is that concealed, gone to ground Germans mean you only range in on a six. Not great odds. I got off one successful smoke mission all day.
2) Assaulting the monster. What you want to try to do is to limit the defensive fire (see #1 above) and hit a very NARROW part of the line. Of course this gets attritional very very fast as he'll feed bodies in from two platoons against your one. When it's done, they'll all run back to the trench and you're back to square one....less the platoon you just sent into the trench to die.
3) Stand off and shoot. If you can find the terrain that will allow you to hide from his long range AT fire, you can try to wrinkle them out of their trenches with high firepower guns in direct fire. Nine big AT 11 or 12 guns makes this difficult as does the 105mm fire raining down on top of you. See #1 for ways to limit their field of vision. Oh...and if you get close enough...he'll drag out the Panzerschreks and they'll make your life really miserable.
4) Bring your own artillery. It's a great idea but...anyone ever hear of a little dispute called World War I? Yeah. It takes time...it takes forward observers. It takes luck (see #1 above). And of course the whole time you're shooting at him, he's shooting at you. Plus, in some of the missions you're gonna be on the clock and trying to get to the objectives before time runs out is dicey.
#4 DOES look like the best option though. With staff teams able to call a repeat, big guns can leverage a section of line and the German either has to keep feeding troops in and hope they survive or back off and let you punch through a section of trench since there won't be any bodies there to stop you. Of course, the counterattack is going to be brutal so make sure you set up your defensive fire lanes well.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. I do know these lists are here to stay and represent one of the best bang for the buck German army types out there right now.
David
But Warren will probably crush me into the dirt next week so yah. :<