2000 point list ideas for june

[Tiger505]

German Grenadier Kompanie FE2

HQ 1PF 50
Gren PF 165
Gren PF 165
3x Pak 38 110
Pion SW&PF 250
3x Pak 40 170
3x NW41 125
4x StuG III 380
2x Jagdpanther 470
Limited Stuka G 135

2000 points 8 Platoons.

FE II British Infantry

HQ 35
Rifle 135
Rifle 135
Rifle 135
Carrier Platoon 3 Patrols each with 1 extra MG and 1 Piat 230
Armored Platoon w/ Firefly 280
Armored Platoon 2/ Firefly 280
ATPRA SP 4x M10 C 260
FBRA 8x 25pdr 275
AOP 25
Priority Typhoons 220

2000 points 8 Platoons.

FEII Grenadier Kompanie

HQ 1xPK 45
Gren PF 156
Gren PF 165
Pion SW&PF 250
3x Pak 38 110
4x NW41 165
3x StuG III 285
2x Kingtiger 680
Limited Stuka G 135

7 Platoons 2000 points.

SO Sturm Kompanie

HQ 2x PS 95
Gren Full PF 270
Gren Full PF 270
Sturm AT 2x Pak 40 120
Sturm MG 2x HMG 80
Mortar 4x Gw34 145
Pion ST 245
3x StuG III 285
2x Tiger Ie 430
8x trench (64 inchs) 40
2x wire (16 inchs) 20

8 Platoons 2000 Points

[mcginn]

In the sturm kompanie are all those tanks really necessary? Maybe you could replace the StuGs with 88s and give them extra crew that way you have the same number of shots and platoons but you get AT 13. Also you need more than 50 points worth of fortifications if you are going for tha always defend rule and that 88 switch would give you some room there. That is unless they put out an errata on the sturm that said 50 points or more.

[cephian]

No errata on Sturm. As you said the rule states "more than 50 points". I'm kinda giggling though at the full PF platoons. Going against your own advice again TK505. You could use that 120 points and the 25 points for the RSO in the Pioneer platoon for other choices.

[Tiger505]

The 10 points for the wire was a typo. The tournament forces me to play a mobile battle first round and the other 2 rounds are not even announced yet. That is the reason why I maxed the armor. I also don't see many useful choices for the 120 points worth of fausts. The list is designed to fold down into 6 platoons or as much as 9 depending on the mission. The only reason there are max fausts at all is that its a 2000 point game and short of adding a 3rd grenadier zug nothing useful jumps out at me. Two zugs of MG/PF with a pak 40 and HMG attached to each though makes for a nasty little fire base at this points level. I am finding that taking Germans to 2000 points is really kinda like master-baiting. (I know it isn't spelled right it isn't meant to be) I can add several small weapons platoons, add a single tank, add a 3rd infantry unit, or take bigger versions of existing gear. The choices sorta suck because they don't change the platoon count enough to get allot of use out of the extra units. The choice to make units better seems to work best as it doesn't alter the armies deployment structure to much but it does make what gets to the board allot meaner to deal with.

The CT British list with an extra 250 points gain AT capability in its re-con and max air support. It could also get another rifle unit and 4 pdr AT guns for a more static feeling. We must also not forget it could swap a Sherman unit and get some Crocs and have points left to spare.

It boils down to cost effective units. A list with more types of cost effective units can do more with extra points compared to a list who only has a few good units then has to fill points with junk stuff. Germans get nice gear but only a handful of platoons can be purchased then its just the left overs. British can get multiple platoons of each effective type.

The US at 2000 can now get a serious arty park and some mobile units. The Russians are stuck more like the Germans in that each unit costs allot more and it makes platoon count become an issue again. However it does make Russian arty a viable choice though instead of just mortars so it opens up allot of options in those 6 companies you pick.

[mcginn]

I like the extra Zug of grenadiers, you could even make them pioneers for some handy tank assault >.> Pretty cut and dry for Germans. How are you finding the extra points treating the Brits? One of the only differences I see is the priority Typhoons, though priority air? Sexy methinks.

[Tiger505]

The thing about just buying more infantry is will it fight? Because so many missions make me take stuff into reserve you have to be careful and keep in mind what you want to deploy in each mission vs armor, infantry, or mech opponents. I also have to be aware how many stands will fit in X number of trench sections. I can barely cram in the 3 infantry units I have.

[mcginn]

Very true, but as you're always defending I find that more infantry is never a bad thing, usually I just keep one in reserve behind the trenches midway between either objective so they can get over to the other objective and buy some time. There is a possibility that it will not fight, but that would mean the rest of the army is doing well enough that I don't need it.

[Tiger505]

I always defend in 4 of 6 missions and I already have 3 infantry units totaling 24 stands. The one mission I know for sure I have to play is a mobile battle. The problem I find is that in tournaments you see allot of mass medium armor lists which means any infantry I start in reserve are basically MG bait once the battle gets to close range. The AT gun units also suffer when you have to defend multiple objectives against tank hordes. Trenches do allow me to move onto the board into BP cover but not all missions will give me enough spare trenches to build one for reserves nor will I typically have the luxury of the objective being near the reserve trench. Even with double time allowing me to move quick the double ROF would pin the unit very easily and with a 4+ moral roll I don't like to gamble on pin checks to get units where I need them. I had a very static Sturm list I ran for a while that worked but I was never really able to respond to the enemy once he broke into my lines. I found the 3 StuGs where more of a target than a threat to most competent players. Thats one reason I stopped using Sturm is its lack of balance. StuGs + Tigers makes for a much more effective response force. The reason I dropped from 6 Pak 40s to only 2 is that I kept seeing 3 guns in duels with the entire enemy tank army. My new experience running the PaK 38 has pretty much convinced me that AT guns should be left GT until short range and the higher ROF on the Pak 38 to me is better than the AT 12 of the Pak 40. The 40 really cant hurt the heavy stuff from the nose most of the time and its ROF isn't high enough to stop a swarm so forget the big stuff smoke it and let the higher ROF do its thing. Sturm cant get the 38 so I had the extra points and upped my short range ROF via panzerfausts. I normally dislike the idea and even here it isn't one I like but because of my developing doctrine of layering my AT assets into 3 brackets its the best this list can do.

[Tiger505]

Ok I need some quick feed back because time is almost up to turn in my list.

Hq 1IC PF and 2IC 50
Gren PF 165
Gren PF 165
Pion PF 230
3x Pak 38 110
4x NW41 165
4x Gwr 34 145
2x HMG
2x Jagdpanther 470
3x StuG III G 285
Limited Stuka G 135

2000 pts 9 platoons can collapse to 8 or expand to 10.

Instead of trying to add bigger toys I beefed my 3 tube template unit to 4 tubes and added a 2nd unit to do smoke duty. I added the HMGS to add some anti blob ablity and to make the 10th platoon if I needed it.

deployment vs armor will be pioneers, grenadiers, pak 38s, Stugs, Jagdpanthers.

Deployment vs infantry will be

Grenadiers. pioniers, pak 38s, NW41s I would attach the HMGs to the grenadiers.

[sgtfane]

it looks great. . you have the infantry backed by the tanks and smoke with anchor to protect the other objective to attack then on defence you layer everything like you did before in the 1750 games they will shatter on your lines . . its a tough nut to crack. . . you litterly have evey base covered . . . take down aop you have air . . . med tank hoard . . . you have flamethrowers, shotguns, the stugs to distract and flank th the panthers for the range duel infantry hoard two templates possibly three if planes decide to show. . then start taking out the infantry with hmg's maybe even be bold enough to flame them or the heavy tanks supporting them . . . i can see it now o look your croc in on flameing distance. . . . even the heavys are going to have issues . . . you have up to 3 flamethrowers you can use. . . shoot and strom with the panthers, the stugs could be lucky and get flank shots and you can throw down 4 templates of smoke to keepem moving. . . . then getum close and hit them with the PF and the pio's . . . . stick with it an be ruthless and you should do great. . . like always

[60buick]

I'd go with it. You have something to deal with everything. Very balenced.